tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post112583223832072608..comments2024-02-11T00:01:56.451+05:30Comments on zigzackly’s omnium-gatherum: Being Poor my arsezigzacklyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16061386367303982262noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-77712025302903723572015-09-22T20:55:26.720+05:302015-09-22T20:55:26.720+05:30The difference is that kids in the 3rd world count...The difference is that kids in the 3rd world countries have it worse. Americans suffer too but kids in 3rd world countries have it worse. Most 3rd world countries uses kids and adults as slave labour, child labour. And kids as young as 4 work in factories. And said factories are polluted (may lead to respiratory problems) and not safe (Wal-Mart has fa tories that have caught on fire due to negligence) and that accidents occur too often to children and adults with mishandled machinery and not being taught how to use machines. America has laws to protect them from this the kids in the 3rd countries don't. Also many don't have limits on how many hours you work on minimum wage. Kids could be working for 14 hours making like a penny an hour but in america kids are protected from this. Granted it isn't a who is suffering more contest but I get why this article has been posting and I commend the author and John Scalzi , because both posts are both thought provoking and maturely written. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16978520986718805169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-42186533319863739712008-06-04T07:10:00.000+05:302008-06-04T07:10:00.000+05:30"I can't understand for the life of me why the "po..."I can't understand for the life of me why the "poor" people writing these lists seem to worry about material things so much. Tellys and cars? Who gives a rat's ass?<BR/>Why do we need a telly to run up the power bill if we ain't got money to pay it? Why do we need a car if we can't afford petrol, licences, etc.?"<BR/><BR/>Because when you live in a rural county with no public transportation, having a car is crucial to being able to get to work and sometimes employers don't even want you if you can't show you have reliable transportation.kooolaidredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02545337813836506807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1165279506075845002006-12-05T06:15:00.000+05:302006-12-05T06:15:00.000+05:30Look at it from the perspective of a child. Most ...Look at it from the perspective of a child. Most of the initial piece came from that point of view. Adults have choices; children have only what is provided for them, and they find that their options are limited by lack and other people's perceptions of that lack. No concentration, because they've had no breakfast. No place to study. No one to help them with their homework, and no time because they have chores. <BR/><BR/>Clearly Katrina has raised consciousness for many about poverty in the US, which is an opportunity to understand global interconnections of power and privelege and to foment change on a broader scale. This among many recent events has also pushed the painful guilt-button for people who thought they were living in a color-blind, egalitarian land of opportunity. I thought your post was bafflingly insensitive, really, for reasons that resonate with the more excoriating critiques you received, but you've done a wonderful job of provoking a conversation from which everyone seems to have learned something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1164913873678240662006-12-01T00:41:00.000+05:302006-12-01T00:41:00.000+05:30So, what's your point? I ask the question sincere...So, what's your point? I ask the question sincerely, and not in the dismissive sense. On reading the list, it was obvious to me that he was talking about the sort of poverty you find in the U.S., not the sort you find in Uganda. So by bringing up the latter sort, what is it you intend to accomplish?<BR/><BR/>I would like to think that your goal isn't to dismiss the problems of relative poverty, but I think a lot of the people who read your counterpoint are going to take away the message that poverty in America doesn't really exist, and that the poor should just realize how good they have it and stop complaining. I doubt that was your intention (though if it was, using the very poor as a weapon against the moderately poor isn't exactly sporting).<BR/><BR/>I believe the two problems (relative poverty in industrialized nations and absolute poverty abroad) are very closely linked. Though you can get more bang for the buck fighting absolute poverty, the impetus to fight both stems from the same source: empathy for the suffering and the shattered dreams of a fellow human being. Those who cannot be moved by the sight of people struggling in their own neighborhoods aren't likely to be stirred to action by the plight of people on another continent. But if we develop a society committed to eradicating poverty at home, such a society won't be able to turn a blind eye to even more desperate conditions abroad.<BR/><BR/>I also believe that apathy towards the relatively poor and the absolutely poor stem from the same sort of rationalizations: somehow they are simply harvesting the fruit of their own laziness or their own moral failings. They believe that the poor in America are that way because they're lazy, or because they spend all their money on drugs and alcohol. They claim that the poor in Rwanda are simply too cowardly or shortsighted to cast aside a corrupt government.<BR/><BR/>Fighting one unfair stereotype can open peoples' minds to the baselessness of other stereotypes. What if that Wal-Mart bagger really is working every bit as hard as his manager, or the CEO of the company? Is it fair that a society that rewards the CEO's efforts with untold luxury doesn't even give the bagger basic health insurance? Once you ask that question, it's hard not to start questioning other assumptions, the ones that allow us to believe that poor people everywhere just need to think positive or start taking advantage of the opportunities around them.<BR/><BR/>I don't think that sympathy is a zero-sum game; rather, I believe that by spotlighting the very real struggle of the poor in America, Scalzi is also preparing people to be more receptive to the struggles that your own list hightlights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1147037543154568112006-05-08T03:02:00.000+05:302006-05-08T03:02:00.000+05:30You are so right. Relative poverty, so what? Screw...You are so right. Relative poverty, so what? Screw them. Who cares if really poor Americans also deal with lice, the government taking away their children, insects in their food, rodents in their bed, ridicule, incredible riches all around you, being rejected by everyone around you for being only 2% of the population (poor white children in the U.S. under the poverty line for greater than 15 years of childhood), etc. Maybe you are lucky to have TV as entertainment, maybe not (most pawned item at our house). But what human actually thinks constant Paris Hilton programming makes a U.S. poor child feel better? My brother killed himself. Why didn't you? You must have had something to live for. We are thankful we don't live in a Third World country, but then again, none of the poverty would have been so bad if we hadn't been living among walking gold mines.DMFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17498012637692025627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1146479645034928382006-05-01T16:04:00.000+05:302006-05-01T16:04:00.000+05:30Often my "cold comfort" thought is that there's pe...Often my "cold comfort" thought is that there's people who wish they had my problems.<BR/>Even though life in western countries can be pretty soulless and denigrating (with seemingly everybody else being more fortunate), I'd probably seriously consider committing suicide if my living standards/treatment by others was worse.<BR/><BR/>Even though the people are just as bad in western societies there's no escaping the fact that there's more opportunity than for people in places you've never heard of. (for the record I'm in Australia)Futuristhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04281622847065326032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1139813655676005682006-02-13T12:24:00.000+05:302006-02-13T12:24:00.000+05:30When someone says, "poverty is..." it’s a global a...When someone says, "poverty is..." it’s a global appeal. It is about defining poverty. Naturally people, who have seen much worse conditions, won't appreciate that. The comment from an Indian American bashing the Indian version of poverty is typical. Most of Indian Americans come here on their father's money, right after earning a basic degree. They are clueless about the reality in India. They want to believe that they are not considered as blacks. There is a constant struggle to fit in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1138371639324466912006-01-27T19:50:00.001+05:302006-01-27T19:50:00.001+05:30You can get two pounds of apples for a dollar. Gre...You can get two pounds of apples for a dollar. Great. Or you can buy a case of Raman for a dollar- which is more food? Which will last longer? Which one can be watered down and stretched? Which one does not go bad?<BR/><BR/>Which is the better deal? Apples are much better for you, it's true, but honestly, I can see how people hanging on by a thread choose the raman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1138371603815066882006-01-27T19:50:00.000+05:302006-01-27T19:50:00.000+05:30This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Catherine at Frugal Homemaker Plushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00014697591588112092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1127753798045667172005-09-26T22:26:00.000+05:302005-09-26T22:26:00.000+05:30(this is the 1st "blog" I've ever written, it stra...(this is the 1st "blog" I've ever written, it strangly ammusing to me that I've become so irritated that I've been inspired to do so)<BR/>My heart bleeds piss for all of your "save the world" bullshit. Being poor is not giving a damn about ANYTHING but the survivial of yourself and family! Being poor is snatching life by the throat as if your life depended on it, because it does! Being poor is looking at all anemities as resources for survival and using them. Your think people in Uganda give a damn if your defending them on the internet right now! Aside from the few possible exceptions, you are all digustingly weak individuals, and obviously have never lived in the conditions you debate over. Burn in hell.<BR/>Sincerely,<BR/> Welfare childAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1127458445988743962005-09-23T12:24:00.000+05:302005-09-23T12:24:00.000+05:30I can't understand for the life of me why the "poo...I can't understand for the life of me why the "poor" people writing these lists seem to worry about material things so much. Tellys and cars? Who gives a rat's ass? <BR/>Why do we need a telly to run up the power bill if we ain't got money to pay it? Why do we need a car if we can't afford petrol, licences, etc.? <BR/><BR/>Starch and calorie-laden foods are the only things poor people can afford? What the hell? Every supermarket I've ever been in has PRODUCE that is cheaper than any processed foods I've ever seen for sale. I grew up in a single-parent home. No child support, momma on welfare WHILE she earned a degree. I was taught that designer names on my butt didn't mean a damned thing because it was ME who counted. Not what was in our apartment, what kind of car we had, how my hair was done, etc. <BR/><BR/>So what if a kid doesn't get anything for Christmas. Most of this country is "Christian" any way right? And if ya are, the holiday is supposed to be about the birth of Christ, not teaching children how to keep the capitalistic empire stoked!<BR/><BR/>Today I shop at the thrift because I love it. I get a rush when I find a good bargain. Let those who care to go to GAPPED and GOLD NAVY spend upward of $30 for a pair of jeans. I'll wait and get the same pair (they're wearing 'em faded and ragged looking any way!) for less than $5 at my local thrift.<BR/><BR/>A chicken in every pot huh? If we put good foods (bananas, 59 cents a pound; grapes, 99 cents a pound; 5-lb bag of carrots - $1.98, etc.) into our "poor" bodies, we wouldn't have to worry about being unhealthy and have our teeth falling out, etc. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes we in the "developed" nations just take too much for granted. We really need to stop complaining and use the brains God gave us! I'm not saying we all have access to good food and common sense, but if you're reading this it's likely you do. So Pass It On! You know, "Each one teach one." That sorta thing. <BR/><BR/>Of course this is all relative... to one's frame of mind, frame of reference, choice of attitude. This will pinch some of us right where it hurts. And those who are pinched will holler...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126613861975950942005-09-13T17:47:00.000+05:302005-09-13T17:47:00.000+05:30No blogger account, I'm afraid, but I have to say...No blogger account, I'm afraid, but I have to say I agree with all those "our poor are better than your poor!" comments. A pissing contest over the poor? Please. Scalzi produced a <I>well-written</I> and <I>thought-provoking</I> piece that got a lot of people thinking. I understand some may find it infuriating when others express sympathy for those in dire straights, when they themselves are in/have been in a worse place; and I understand that even if you've not been there, you can still see that misery. But like someone has already said: misery is misery. Some people have it worse, yes, that's true, and it's horrible. It doesn't mean that those in the relative poverty of the first- or second-world areas are just pissing and moaning when they say "My son has had hunger pains for two days." Humiliation is humiliation, whether it's begging on the street, having to let a stranger into your bed or being looked down upon by the other parents. To say "well some have it worse" reeks of childishness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126574208834246732005-09-13T06:46:00.000+05:302005-09-13T06:46:00.000+05:30I refuse to partake of this here. Im doing it on m...I refuse to partake of this here. Im doing it on my own blog. <BR/><BR/>http://rageagainsthefishbowl.blogspot.com/2005/09/on-need-for-context.html<BR/><BR/>One word though [thanks to that killer named second thought]<BR/><BR/>All those suffering blog-rage: when both the authors concerned are reacting with grace, where you getting off?<BR/><BR/>1) This post was a reaction to the lack of context. It wasn't written to win the Booker.<BR/><BR/>2) Beelzebub is right: misery is misery. <BR/><BR/>Best. And sharpen all knives, those who bring them.<BR/><BR/>The W of O.The Wizard of Oddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16979664336356974842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126569854828144262005-09-13T05:34:00.000+05:302005-09-13T05:34:00.000+05:30In a world with over 6 billion people there will a...In a world with over 6 billion people there will always be many, many poor.<BR/>There will never be enough "rich" to go around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126471337104492172005-09-12T02:12:00.000+05:302005-09-12T02:12:00.000+05:30In response to one of the "anonymous's" above."Bei...In response to one of the "anonymous's" above.<BR/><BR/><I>"Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave." - is the clearest reference to New Orleans possible.</I><BR/><BR/>With all due respect, not really. Especially when you're located far removed from the happennings at New Orleans (read from the other side of the pond) and don't have the hurricane on your mind when you read it. Apart from that last line, there was no other reference to the hurricane, and it's easy to see how the original poster could have "missed the point". When I first read the original list, I took "leave" to mean "get off your ass and do something about your poverty"<BR/>and I live relatively closer New orleans than the original poster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126465354589718742005-09-12T00:32:00.000+05:302005-09-12T00:32:00.000+05:30Writing a retort to the "being poor" list means no...Writing a retort to the "being poor" list means not ever having been subject to either.<BR/><BR/>I'm one of the few people reading this who grew up on the first list. It comforted me to have the recognition of what it was like for me and my family. And franky, I find the sudden "sympathy" (which it took a goddamn hurricane to generate) for poor people patently offensive. Y'all shoulda had it from the beginning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126462016196522002005-09-11T23:36:00.000+05:302005-09-11T23:36:00.000+05:30what a load of crap - you've missed the bloody poi...what a load of crap - you've missed the bloody point and no wonder your country is in such a mess.<BR/><BR/>where's your bloody compassion for ALL who suffer? is it like food stamps - a limited supply? must people behave like performing seals to get your attention? will only the most pathos filled story win the kewpie doll in your jerry springer society?<BR/><BR/>that first "poverty" list struck me really deeply. it rang so true. the second list here is also really heartwrending to someone (me) who isn't poor on either of those scales. BOTH affect me. BOTH need to be redressed. BOTH are heartbreakingly real to those who articulated them.<BR/><BR/>you shallow, silly people. thank goodness the majority of people you fail in your community will not have the "luxury" of reading the crap you come out with. i cannot believe how annoyed i am - this is beyond the pale. no wonder you've ended up with the government you've got.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126422789324617902005-09-11T12:43:00.000+05:302005-09-11T12:43:00.000+05:30We in the U.S. did have this kind of poverty in th...We in the U.S. did have this kind of poverty in the Great Depression. People got used to the taste of roasted rats.<BR/><BR/>Also, there are still pockets of poor in rural areas that might live similarly to those in 3rd world countries. Try Appalachia.<BR/><BR/>I have been poor. $30 a month for food, thanks to the Reagan revolution. My college degree meant nothing when no jobs were out there. I was grateful for my little room. <BR/><BR/>I remember those days. I was poor. And it might happen again, with the continual elimination of protections against the middle class. Trust me, poor thinking doesn't leave you. I have literally gone months with no food, only water (which is at least drinkable, even though we no have a middle class income. My clothes are K-Mart $5 clearances, even though we can afford more. But I keep seeing that axe getting ready to fall. Only 1987 dollars were much more valuable than 2005 dollars. Being poor leaves those scars.<BR/><BR/>And those in those third world countries need to acknowledge that there are many, many poor and a few very, very rich.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126394654944869942005-09-11T04:54:00.000+05:302005-09-11T04:54:00.000+05:30I must say that this post was quite childish. You'...I must say that this post was quite childish. You'd be suprised at how many American's DO know about poverty in other countries and DO try and help at times. Yes, our government fucks up alot in that respect but seriously, they spend more on foreign aid than any other country.<BR/><BR/>Now they finally want to start spending that on my OWN countrymen. Seems relatively reasonable.<BR/><BR/>You also conviently ignore economics in your "nah nah my poors better than your poor." In america, there really is no such thing as "cheap." not when you scale the worth of our money vs. that elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126068775869226972005-09-07T10:22:00.000+05:302005-09-07T10:22:00.000+05:30This once again proves to me, that some Americans ...This once again proves to me, that some Americans are only semiliterate (<BR/>I am Slovak, by the way). To me and anyone else who can read at an adult level the last item on John's list - "Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave." - is the clearest reference to New Orleans possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1126023695752731342005-09-06T21:51:00.000+05:302005-09-06T21:51:00.000+05:30I'm guessing the anonymice who dismiss this is a w...I'm guessing the anonymice who dismiss this is a whose-is-bigger contest are from a country in the middle of a continent on the other side of the world from the blogger.<BR/><BR/>balusmbox made the most sense to me.<BR/><BR/>-anonymouse, because I don't want these rabid people harassing me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1125986727409245832005-09-06T11:35:00.000+05:302005-09-06T11:35:00.000+05:30The two blogs are reflection of what we see out of...The two blogs are reflection of what we see out of our windows. They are here to remind us that we need to act. Even if it is 35cents/35paise. Lets stop cribbing what they posted, and start working. Here is a link for Indians who wanna help. <BR/><BR/>http://www.parikrmafoundation.org/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1125981757700944062005-09-06T10:12:00.000+05:302005-09-06T10:12:00.000+05:30To all the Anonymouses - amen - are you the same p...To all the Anonymouses - amen - are you the same person? You've made the only good points here. This is the stupidest display of surfer-whoring I've ever seen. <BR/><BR/>Apparently, because the people in New Orleans aren't as miserable as those in India and Africa, we shouldn't help them, we should let them die and maybe even tell them that "hey, at least you're better off than a poor person in the third-world. So what if you've lost everything? Stupid Americans".<BR/><BR/>Note to the sarcasm-challenged: The above sentence in quotes is sarcasm.phuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454292574105813710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1125965439168469562005-09-06T05:40:00.000+05:302005-09-06T05:40:00.000+05:30Being rich is being among the elite 15% of the wor...Being rich is being among the elite 15% of the world who are sitting in front of a internet-enabled computer and having a p*ssing contest about who is poorer, and what true poverty is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5773962.post-1125961297785897872005-09-06T04:31:00.000+05:302005-09-06T04:31:00.000+05:30I'm an Indian American who found both of these blo...I'm an Indian American who found both of these blog posts from Amit Varma's IndiaUncut Blog, and I have to say that while you both have points, yours, here, is a bit out of line. You have a computer and a blog, so clearly you're not one of the poor developing world people you're "championing". And clearly, you are aware of the Katrina disaster. So I don't think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to understand the context of this post, and the point its making, and why. You write in the update: <I>Your post didn't offer that context, and it was my first visit to your blog, so I'm sorry that I didn't get that.<BR/></I> Since you apologized I hate hitting you on the head with it, but it does seem rather insensitive to take this difficult time to wallop one American for trying to incite compassion for his fellow Americans. <BR/>Your inference that this is evidence that that all Americans don't understand what world poverty is point-scoring at best. You want to make a clever point for the sake of being clever, and that's a bit rich in this context. <BR/><BR/>If you have a computer and a blog you're definitely better off than a large chunk of the American poor. Do we ask you to reflexively acknowledge their plight on your blog? No. Scalzi, Nielsen Hayden, and Boing Boing are all American productions, and you can't blame them for focusing on American problems at a time like this. <BR/><BR/>I for one, am quite aware of World Poverty, having spend some time in rural Bengal and Kolkata itself, and also of American poverty. I've been blessed to always live on the better side of the poverty line, but I've intimately known plenty of people stuck on the other side, and I know that even they are much, much, much better off than the poor of the Mississippi delta, the inner cities, the Dakota reservations, the Blue grass mountains. You'd be surprised how much of your Indo-centric list applies there, especially in Rural America. There are plenty of people in America who live in shacks with no TV and no car and very little furniture, who cannot walk to shelter every night (try sleeping outside in the snow), who are condemned hourly, etc. Your post implies that you'd have little compassion for a fellow-Indian who does not satisfy the basic criteria of your blogpost but does satisfy the basic criteria of Scalzi's. Again, considering that you have a computer and time to blog, that seems pretty weak. I'm not remotely sure what your point is. Americans should not worry about their fellow Americans? Americans should not care about the poverty of their fellow Americans? Americans should not try to work on inequality in America? Please clarify. Your fans say, "Excellent retort," and "great retort." Um, why is a "retort" even necessary. What kind of person feels the need to "retort" to someone who is trying to fix his own country? <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Your citation of 35 cents and $15,000 is a bit silly b/c you odn't take into account the price differences for domestic goods. Clearly the impoverished of America are better off than the impoverished of India in absolute terms, but you exaggerate those absolute proportions for the most extreme cases. As k says, "even if a Manhattan panhandler possibly earns in rupee terms more than I do." To spell their point out a little mor: in what way are rupee terms even remotely relevant to a Manhattan panhandler who has to buy bread at Manhattan prices? <BR/><BR/>Actually, as it happens a lot of Americans--including myself--spend a lot more money on fighting world poverty than American poverty. Forgive us if for a few weeks we'd like to pay attention to our own. We feel a bit guilty for having forgotten them for so long.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com