Do you support imprisonment of old and sick people without investigation (under section 498a of IPC) ?We thank Sumanth for the concern. And we put it to you, dear reader. Does this sound to you like someone who is trying to obscure the question? Or are we just underinformed (which we'll happily admit to)?
Please answer yes or no.
Radical feminists in India, want the law to remain the way it is. If we explain them politely, those hedonists will not understand. Even police and Judiciary shouts that 90% of the cases are false. Even children and minors are getting arrested without investigation based on just one line of false complaint by an adulterous daughter-in-law for money.
It is not surprising, Media fellows are brainwashed with liberal extremism and hence they are extremely intolerant and conservative about their liberal views.
Please, answer the issues we are tackling. Do you support legal abuse of elders ? If no, then what can you do about it ?
It is easy to talk about Tsunami and Imrana because that is fashionable. Then, who will clean the unfashionable shit in the society ?
BTW, our conference at Constitution Club in New Delhi '498a- A Family Killer' was covered by DDNEWS and Total TV. The guests included Madhu Kishwar, hope you know who she is.
If you want to debate with us, join yahoogroup saveindianfamily.
As you do not have any answers for the issues we raise, you are frustrated. We have concern for your situation.
Tuesday, 12 July 2005
Emetic or simplistic?
Our post on the Save India Family Foundation seems to have riled a person called Sumanth from Eastern Dynamics. Since we're all for free speech, we're bringing it out of the comments section:
It's sad and interesting -- as if we all belong to separate, warring planets between which there's no hope of understanding or compassion. Only a deadly, obsessive, hatred on the part of some and complete noncomprehension on the part of others.
ReplyDeleteI would like to be sympathetic towards "Sumanth" but it isn't possible, because he seems convulsed with hatred. If only his message included something soft, something gentle, it would be possible to respect his fury. But in the lack of anything attractive in his message ... what can we say?
Nothing. I suspect that's why there's been a curious silence, Zig. There's no point responding to extreme hatred.
Who is this lunatic?
ReplyDeleteHe should be flogged in public.
Myabe he is asks for dowry.
Tut Tut Zig! U reductionist breaker up of Indian families u!
ReplyDeleteSounds like Sumanth has suffered from the ministrations of an adulterous daughter-in-law or three!
Give the man a banana, he deserves it for jumping up and down in such style.
DD
Man, that "Save Indian Family" link is howlarious.
ReplyDeleteThis much I promise:
I say no to Feminism, cannibalism, elder abuse (please, I can't stop laughing at that phrase) nor will I subject my dear, dear wife to Sowry harassment.
And oh, btw, "Newage Man" is still under construction.
Krishna
I like the way feminist transmogrified into hedonist and then into "adulterous daughter-in-law". I demand equal rights for adulterous and hedonist mother-in-laws, daughters, aunts and sisters as well! And why does everyone ignore the men...are they so unimportant that they can't even be demonised?
ReplyDeleteOn a more sober note, can't they send us someone more calm and reasonable to debate with?
I worry about people and sites like this. They end up misleading and influencing whole communities of other people. Peter, I'm going to end up writing to them because there is a lot to be debated and some of us have to try and get them to stop. Or should we just ignore them and they will die natural deaths?
ReplyDeleteMany valid issues, but such a narrow focus - so totally uninformed and a blinkered perspective - results in pages like "Say No to Feminism". And then there are those completely tangential pieces on Cannabilism.
Certainly Emetic.
There was this whole post on Bindaas Bol about Feminism incidentally which got huge and confused responses. Been meaning to have a full-fledged dialogue on this separately somehwere - where?
If such people are made to "disappear" from the face of the earth, am sure not too many people will hold me responsible na?
ReplyDeletei pray that 'sumanth' gets caught in a cross fire between radical feminisists and brain washed media.
Let's get one thing straight. Most people do not understand what Feminism is. While some of us were talking about legal and political rights, and equity, somebody walked in and stole feminism from right under our noses.
ReplyDeleteFeminism is about choices.
Fact of the matter remains that legal loopholes in India are all about taking advantages of somebody else's vulnerability. Fact also remains that for every 8 cases that rightly bring forth the absolute misery of women suffering from dowry harassment, there are two who are faking it, and asking for astronomical settlements. (Trust me on this, I have something like this going on in my family!)
It brings me to a crucial conclusion. Law is not about majorities. It is not about ensuring that the those in the majority get justice, but those who are languishing in that corner of minorities have some manner of seeking justice as well.
The problem is however when one juxtaposes a legal argument with a moral one.
But even more problematic is lip-service to the cause of feminism. Being a feminist without quite understanding what it is about. That is is not about a war, but about missed and yet-unseen opportunities. That it is about distribution, and not snatching. About roles and responsibilities, and not necessarily retro-blaming.
(My perspective anyway..)
I have serious issues when people start talking about *preserving* families however. Families are not fruits. They are a convenient form of arrangement. A way in which we organize important relationships. Families can be breeding grounds for discontent, rape, anger, inequality, or it could be something wonderful. And there is nothing Indian about any family anyway. Perhaps Sumanth refers to a very mainstream RSS-Type Hindu Baniya family that Advani and BJP honchos come from, and consider to be reflective of a larger trend.
But instead of dismissing Sumanth's stand, I am willing to engage in a dialogue. Because I don't think it makes sense to divide ourselves into frustrated and otherwise souls.
It is so easy to blame something that is miused and misunderstood. Feminism is one of them... Maybe.
you have to admit he has a point about the hypochondria thing...
ReplyDeleteMy dear god...
ReplyDeleteCurly, the people and issues you attract. I love this, of course- And promise to do my best to not descend into base repartee... or at least promise to rise out of it soon enough.
First up- I do have issues with those who bring propoganda-heavy-breathing comments to personal blogs. I do, deeply do.
And then-
Who is this save indian family foundation? Who taught them grammar? Which city are they based in? Why don't they have a telephone number? Who is this Sumanth who speaks on "their" behalf, and where does he come from?
Someone... possibly Sumanth. I see him/her/it sitting staring at the comp screen, hungrily waiting for new comments so that in one fell swoop... but I digress. Someone, yes someone please tell me whether this is even an authentic organization.
And whether there are pages on the site that are supposed to give organization info that are NOT "under construction..."
[I love the three dots. Such existential breathlessness]
Show me pictures. Facts. Numbers.
Otherwise- even before I make fun of the dowry page with references to 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' [dear god]- I will rush to set up my own page.
It will be called Save the Narrow View Points of Lone Maniacs With Too Much Internet Time (SNVPLMWTMI)
And hey, if you think thats a bit much....
Go tell Madhu Kishwar.
Surely the man deserves to be given many bananas if only because he would spell it "bananananas"?
ReplyDeleteI feel his pain.
His adulterous, hypochondriac feminist, daughter-in-laws must have destroyed his Indian family by practicing cannibalism.
Help him out - reassure him, tell him the nice men in white jackets will soon come around with their nice little pills and then he won't mind being an abused elder anymore.
DD
Sumanth,
ReplyDeleteThe last thing you should do is thank me.
I am a feminist, but I refuse to be drafted into the academic swirl of equity, equality, gender, or opportunist feminism. Ref to my previous comment, I think feminism is about choices. You have got feminism completely wrong AS WELL.
Your solution to the issue of counter-harassment is to take a moral stand on Indian (sic)Family Values. I would take it another way and push for legal advocacy, but make partners of women, not war with them.
I am definitely not comfortable with supporting anything that pretends to represent the Indian Family. For one thing, I don't believe that such a monolith even exists.
As for the book, 'Who stole Feminism?', it is an extremely contextual understanding of feminist wave post 90s in countries that have largely moved beyond Christian Law and Dogma, and sometimes seek to find direction. I find that book to be extremely irritating actually, because its entire argument is based on why Gender Feminism is wrong, but does not attempt to launch into a dialogue with feminists, but instead goes onto say that women are limited biologically anyway, and therefore equity as opposed to equality is important.
Again. Do not thank me. I was only urging others to look at shades of gray, and not agree with you.
Go Annie, go!
ReplyDeleteHaving decided not to bang my head against any walls. Let me say this, DD1 casting anything is not proof of it being relevant or right. For instance I was once on DD (Both National and Metro if you will) as a 12 year old singing Christmas Carols, bleary eyed and with other dizzy 12 year olds.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing you need to understand before you launch into your *anger-based* motion, is that anger simply doesn't work. You cannot make enemies in the public sphere. When you use strong language, people focus on your language and not the idea itself. For instance if I say Advani is an Idiot, the focus becomes the word *idiot* and nobody is interested in knowing the rational behind why I don't respect Advani. Perhaps a better way of saying it is to say I have a genuine problem with Advani's opinions.
Because of the language and approach you use, people will never both to understand what you are trying to say or what the *value* of your argument is. Your approach is aggressive and not integrated. I understand if someone has a concern about misuse of certain laws, but you cannot move against all feminists, because you loose important comrades, because feminists' core cause is justice.
But I suppose my current status as jobless gives me all the more time to discuss this stuff.
Amen.
Several mistakes in my previous comment. If you spotted them, thank me later for entertainment.
ReplyDeleteAnd Ziggy.. Shame on you .. making me waste my precious time on this. Lol
Err.. Sumanth.
ReplyDeleteMy point exactly.
Both men and women are a victim of patriarchy. And feminism in its core element does recognize that. You cannot call every bloody radical male-hater a feminist.
As for marrying *down*. I am amazed that you think earning less, being shorter, being younger.. is somehow *down* .. I would put it as equals thank you.
So your theory really holds water from your own narrow perspective then.. eh?
Who is this IDIOT, this Sumanth??? And why are we all wasting time trying to make him understand anything??? Relax. One day he will die & take his ideas with him! As for his blog, we don't need to go & read it! Problem solved, simple!!!
ReplyDeletezigzackly, apologies for what i am about to do on your blog.
ReplyDeletesumanth, kyun chhup raha hai blog ke peeche. dum hai toh address aur phone number de. pehle tujhe phone kar ke teri ma-behen ko gaaliyan sunayenge. tujhe khushi honi chahiye kyunki tujhe toh aurat log se problem hai. phir tujhe aa kar bahut marenge. bahut mazaa ayega. humare liye bhi kuch kar. chal, abhi address aur phone number de.
Sumanth
ReplyDeleteI am not a media person. Nor am I a techie. But it's interesting to see that you do not believe in the value of an idea, but in defending your person.
Caught between amusement and sorrow for what this Sumanth person is doing to your nice page, Curly. My scrolling bar is going beserk. Sigh, O why.
ReplyDeleteBut here's something fun.
I took Sumanth-ji's advice and went to the website- AGAIN. (Really, I need a life)- to seek for an address, a telephone number, anything.
Here's what I find:
clicked on home. Theres an email address@saveindianfamily.com. Ah. How transparent.
Clicked on human Rights. Under construction. Still with those same bloody dots.
Clicked on Projects. Under construction.
Articles. Under construction.
Newage man. Under construction.
Campaigns. Under construction. Though I feel he should put a link to here and call it "The Screwing With Normal People's Blogs" campaign.
Children. Under construction. How pithy. And of course nothing on Women's welfare.
But under "get help" [paradoxical, considering this Sumanth's current disposition] I found this-
http://www.saveindianfamily.com/pages/aboutus.html
Individual cell phone numbers.2 bangalore land lines. No address still.
But this is a helpline, Sumanth you schmutz. Where do you live, where's your office, what are you registered under?
And do note, ladies and gentlemen- I did finally find a last name for this jolly gent-
Its Sumanth Godly.
Vae Victis, I say.
On a final note though- Coz really, this has gone on a while, yes?
ReplyDeleteGriff, Neha, Annie, Sunil, and everyone else over here- Yes, even you, Sumanth.
Note what the words are at the bottom of the page abt elders abuse-
"Disclaimer: This page is entirely my perception of scheme of things, and there is no attempt to cloud anyone's judgement or manipulate perceptions in anyway"
Very well, Mr. Godly. Then be so kind as to stop accusing and harassing the good people here.
Unless of course you are in fact a very angry little boy who just started this site and over the past day or so a blog or two.
And if you are a very angry little boy, well-
Shame on you, Sumanth. Shame, shame, shame.
The site didn;t seem extremist or angry but Sad.
ReplyDeleteBut it is true that feminists are responsibile for lot of elder abuse.
I am amused however at the quality of comments and their language seem to be . Oh my god I do not understand let me try to dismiss it
Ok -Sumanth is NOT a techie. Merely delusional. You can't track ip addresses on and off blogspot - not unless you happen to own a large chunk of google.
ReplyDeleteAll those adulterous cannibalistic daughters-in-law have turned his brain into mush.
Bananas anyone?
Techie hai re! Aur Yeda bhi hai! Or is that the same thing? To me it is. Must be an out of work techie! Bench kar diya hoga. Imagine, so much exposure, so much information at his fingertips and a mind narrower than his...
ReplyDeleteZig... why don't you delete all the posts this techie doofus has put up? Best way to silence him. What say?
So, the techie actually keeps a log of the people who visited his "Under Construction..." hate site. Very good, techie. (That's if you didn't just make up the numbers, of course.)
ReplyDeleteAnd, techie, have you considered this? If you can track, you can BE tracked. Or do you think all the techies in the world are as narrow-minded as you?